Fr. N.J.A. Humphrey - 10 March 2009 05:09 PM

Hi Katie,

After going through a lot of the same process of exploration that Katie did, I had a strange epiphany of sorts:  It was as if Christ said to me, “I don’t care where you end up, as long as you follow me.  The Romans have issues with celibacy and women and control, the Episcopalians have issues with sexuality and women and chaos.  Pick your poison!”  In other words, there’s no perfect church.  The Body of Christ pervades all of them to one degree or another; the choice is not which church has the highest degree of correctness (though that’s nice!).  The choice is:  Where does Christ call me to take up his cross and follow him?  Even then, it’s not even a denominational “where” so much as it is a concrete one (e.g., St. Paul’s, K Street at the moment). 

Now, this could change.  But if it does, I’m confident that Christ’s call will have very little to do with where I’m coming from and nearly everything to do with where I’m headed next.  Theologically, I make it a principle of discernment that if bitterness or hostility or anger are playing a big part in a contemplated transition, that is more likely to be a temptation to escape than a call to mission.

.

I appreciate this comment, Father.  If only more Episcopalians would “inwardly digest” and meditate on this.

As my mother used to say, “If you ever find the perfect Church, don’t think about joining it….you would only spoil the perfection”.

LOL,

As my mother used to say, “If you ever find the perfect Church, don’t think about joining it….you would only spoil the perfection”.

That is fantastic! Wise words from moms who don’t spend all their time with their heads stuck in theology books are priceless!

Katie Silcox - 12 March 2009 10:28 AM

Hi Karen,
(snip)
I’ll point you to a couple of places to start in terms of getting a basic understanding of ‘catholic or communion ecclesiology.’

1. For an intro place to start into things, I would suggest: Michael Ramsey “The Gospel and the Catholic Church”
2. This is definitely the next place to go, a presentation that Dr. Philip Turner gave to Duke divinity students: http://www.anglicancommunioninstitute.com/?p=386
3. Let me know what you think of those and how they go over and then I can suggest some more.

Thanks for the suggestion. The public library doesn’t have it, so I have put in an interlibrary loan request. The RC college in town has a copy but it will probably take a week or two until it gets here. I can check our church library too. Maybe we have a copy. In the meantime, do you know of a book that has a format of debate or compare/contrast of various views on ecclesiology? I’ve found such a book helpful in clarifying my thinking on other topics too.

Hi Karen,

Actually, the book I am going to suggest is definitely more than an intro, but it really is the best source I have seen that lays out the various ecclesiological models that we have at present and then that provides a historical, political and theological as to how these models have played out over time, and then provides what the authors feel to be the most fruitful and faithful way to go. It is “Fate of the Communion” by Ephraim Radner and Philip Turner.

The arguments are dense. You will likely need to read the book slowly and possibly read parts over a couple of times. I think I’ve read the book over three times in total over the past two years, simply because it continues to offer more insight as I read and learn more. But as I watch things unfold, I have found the book very prophetic, and very hopeful as compared to most of the other things I have read (which don’t really point in practical directions).

I would really recommend the book. To read the equivalent treatment they give to ecclesiological models you’d need to read 6-7 books.

Hope this is helpful. If you do choose to read it, let me know how it goes or if you have questions!

I echo Karen’s endorsement, though I would add that it is difficult to comprehend it entirely without strong familiarity with The Windsor Report (TWR).  So I suggest that you download a PDF of TWR as well.

Oh ya, good idea Craig.

Here are the links to the Virginia Report and the Windsor Report:

http://anglicancommunion.org/commission/covenant/st_andrews/draft_text.cfm

http://anglicancommunion.org/commission/covenant/docs/a_lambeth_commentary.pdf

They also make reference to the ‘proposed’ Covenant Agreement which is now out there. You should read the Covenant but also the Lambeth Commentary:

The St. Andrew’s Draft of the Covenant Agreement
http://www.anglicancommunion.org/commission/covenant/st_andrews/draft_text.cfm

The Bishops’ Commentary from the Lambeth Conference on the St. Andrew’s Draft
http://www.anglicancommunion.org/commission/covenant/docs/a_lambeth_commentary.pdf

To bring you completely up to speed once you have read the others, go for the most recent Primate’s Communique and the Windsor Continuation Group Report:

The February 2009 Primate’s Communique
http://www.aco.org/acns/news.cfm/2009/2/5/ACNS4574

The Windsor Continuation Report
http://www.aco.org/commission/windsor_continuation/WCG_Report.cfm