Words of institution and elements ordained by Christ.
Posted: 11 January 2010 04:36 PM   [ Ignore ]  
Moderator
Avatar
Total Posts:  39
Joined  2009-06-03

While re-  reading the final draft of the Anglican Covenant paragraph 1.1.5 gave me a moment’s pause.  I have one parishioner who has a severe allergy to gulten.  Gulten free wafers.  What do you think?  Proper matter?

Share on Facebook
Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 January 2010 04:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
Avatar
Total Posts:  613
Joined  2009-01-31

(1.1.5) the two sacraments ordained by Christ himself – Baptism and the Supper of the Lord – ministered with the unfailing use of Christ’s words of institution, and of the elements ordained by him.

As I recall, there were several RC parishes that fought over this issue - their bishop would not give them permission to use non-wheat based bread.

I’d say most Anglican bishops will give permission to use gulten free wafers (and grape juice instead of wine, too).

Share on Facebook
Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 January 2010 06:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
Avatar
Total Posts:  167
Joined  2009-04-08

A good opportunity for don’t ask don’t tell Ben

Share on Facebook
Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 January 2010 07:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
Total Posts:  2
Joined  2009-02-02

I have to agree with the “don’t ask…” idea.
This gluten allergy is a valid one—even if overused—for those to whom it matters, it matters a lot.
I have some children that did not receive any pre-natal care but were then adopted by a wonderful parish family.  For those children, this is a significant issue.

Perhaps somebody with knowledge could please contribute some good medical understand about whether gluten allergy gets outgrown someday with age and maturity.  Meanwhile, the situation appears much like sugar for diabetics as an enduring situation.  If I understand correctly, gluten-free wafers are made with rice flower.  They are available from Almy—expensive as wafers go, but you would only use them for people who really need them.  Taken to another level, properly using the gluten-free wafers involves a separate paten or pix and care distribute the gluten-free wafers before touching the wheat wafers.  It can get a bit complicated at the Altar.

And related to that, does anybody bring wisdom about the use of alcohol-free wines at the Eucharist?  Not to be confused with the grape-juice issue.  Yes, it is not the modern and highly processed Eucharistic wines on the market—whatever Jesus had at the passover cup was not such a product either—but at a minimum it does say “wine” on the label and tastes about right.

Thanks, folks!
And thanks for that spell checker function on this site.

Share on Facebook
[ Edited: 11 January 2010 07:47 PM by Fr. Ted Edwards]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 January 2010 09:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
Total Posts:  422
Joined  2009-01-31
Fr. Ted Edwards - 11 January 2010 07:38 PM

I have to agree with the “don’t ask…” idea.
This gluten allergy is a valid one—even if overused—for those to whom it matters, it matters a lot.
I have some children that did not receive any pre-natal care but were then adopted by a wonderful parish family.  For those children, this is a significant issue.

Perhaps somebody with knowledge could please contribute some good medical understand about whether gluten allergy gets outgrown someday with age and maturity.  Meanwhile, the situation appears much like sugar for diabetics as an enduring situation.  If I understand correctly, gluten-free wafers are made with rice flower.  They are available from Almy—expensive as wafers go, but you would only use them for people who really need them.  Taken to another level, properly using the gluten-free wafers involves a separate paten or pix and care distribute the gluten-free wafers before touching the wheat wafers.  It can get a bit complicated at the Altar.

And related to that, does anybody bring wisdom about the use of alcohol-free wines at the Eucharist?  Not to be confused with the grape-juice issue.  Yes, it is not the modern and highly processed Eucharistic wines on the market—whatever Jesus had at the passover cup was not such a product either—but at a minimum it does say “wine” on the label and tastes about right.

Thanks, folks!
And thanks for that spell checker function on this site.

Ciliac disease hits people at all ages and persists.  People have different levels of allergic reaction and triggering amount.  I have found some local gluten free bread and use a small cutter to make wafer size bites.  It sits with the regular REAL bread we use (the three rivers recipe) and I have had no complaints.

Can the real presence be conveyed that way?  Of course it can.

Share on Facebook
Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 January 2010 09:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
Avatar
Total Posts:  167
Joined  2009-04-08

Michael and I agree - woopee¡

Share on Facebook
Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 January 2010 12:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
Total Posts:  422
Joined  2009-01-31
Ian Montgomery - 11 January 2010 09:21 PM

Michael and I agree - woopee¡

OMG!  The Kingdom has Come! (By the why whoopee has an “h” hehehehe)

Share on Facebook
Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 January 2010 01:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
Total Posts:  397
Joined  2009-01-31

There is a vegetarian food called “seitan” or “wheat meat” which is made by extracting the protein (gluten) from wheat flour by repeated washing in water. Perhaps the non-protein portion of the wheat could be recovered and used as the basis of wheat-based, but gluten-free (or nearly so) communion wafers. Just a thought.

Share on Facebook
Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 January 2010 09:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
Total Posts:  52
Joined  2009-01-31

Michael, just a quick note that in cases where the allergy is extreme, even a tiny crumb or two can cause problems.  Thus, we don’t co-mingle hosts, but keep already consecrated gluten-free wafers in a separate box (consecrated and replenished as necessary) in the aumbry along with other consecrated elements.  I also try to distribute regular wafers always with my right hand, reserving my left for gluten-free.  This is, perhaps, overly-sensitive on my part, but it does seem to be appreciated and actually feels quite natural.

Share on Facebook
Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 January 2010 11:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
Total Posts:  2
Joined  2009-02-02

My thanks to everybody and with special thanks to Bob for the logistics.

The children I mention have a rather sever situation of it—and aggrivated by a worried mother who had worked through a great many high-risk child hospitalizations with these two adopted children.

What I did was to buy the wafers from CM Almy and use just enough for that household’s needs.  I keep them on a separate little paten, have the family come to the rail first, and have the deacon distribute them since I have been touching the wheat wafers.  It is clumsy, but it does work out.

The last thing I want is to exclude members from the Eucharist over this issue.  There are others asking for this.
Which is why I also raised up the issue about the alcohol-free wine.  I have a great many people in recovery here who now simply receive in the one kind and momentarily hold their bread over the cup without intinction.  I would really like to do better for them.  Visiting the local grocery store, I found the alcohol-free wines.  A simple way to go about this would be to consider the product to be wine as it says “wine” on the label and just go ahead with it. 

I bring this up in this discussion of “elements ordained by Him” because we really do not know much about the quality and style of what Jesus had in the passover cup.  And I am the last around here trying to make improvements on Jesus’ practice.

Thanks for all the good wisdom, everybody.  Very helpful to me.

Share on Facebook
Profile