Hi Scott,

I believe this is similar to a proposal that John McCain endorsed during the campaign. I think it’s worth exploring, although my understanding of McCain’s plan was that the tax deduction would not nearly be enough to cover the current cost of most people’s premiums (never mind the out of pocket expenses).

Yes, I heard about that, but obviously the tax deduction needs to be high enough or the premiums need to be low enough, through government regulation, to be affordable.  Otherwise, its pointless.  Whatever the method, I believe much more regulation of the insurance companies is necessary.

The employer incentives also should not be dismissed, but we have to remember that many people who do not have coverage are in that position because they do not have jobs. There has to be some kind of mechanism to provide coverage for people who are jobless and/or homeless, as well as those who have jobs but are still in poverty.

Yes, that’s right.  I worked as a case manager when the welfare-to-work reform first hit the streets.  I was working in Orlando then.  Most of my clients had no problems getting a job, but they were part-time jobs with no benefits at minimum or near minimum wage.  While they did get some extension on their Medicaid, they were still faced with the reality of having no health care coverage even though they were working…and sometimes two or three jobs.

I’d like to get all your opinions on another point of health care debate. The president and the Democrats have assured the country that any public system will not cover undocumented workers/illegal aliens.  Republicans have insisted on this also. I went to a town hall last week held by one of our local Republican US Representatives and she listed this as one of her litmus tests for any plan she votes for.

I find this highly disturbing and un-Christian. Yes, these people are here illegally. Does that mean we should let them die in the streets if they get sick? What happened to the OT commands to take care of the aliens in our midst? We provide health care to prisoners, even those on death row. Would we rather have these illegals not be able to get care until they have to go to the ER, which is required to treat them at significant cost? I’m upset at even the lack of debate about this. Where is the compassion and mercy?

I think James’ points in a later post are on the spot.  I think the central problem is immigration reform.  That needs to happen, and then other issues such as health care will work themselves out.  I certainly have no problem with clinics, but let’s be real.  They are always understaffed and overpopulated.  So, the default becomes the emergency room.

Fascinating conversation.

In Christ,
Shawn

Thanks James.

A few years ago I was on vacation in rural Ontario and cut the tip of my finger off while slicing vegetables. After a few hours it was still bleeding so we went to the nearest clinic (45 miles away - we were far from town) where I got stitched up. Unfortunately I can’t remember how we ended up paying - there was some out of pocket cost but I don’t recall if the rest was covered by my own US-employer sponsored insurance or some other way. I wish I had paid more attention, but I had lost a lot of blood

Scott:  You wouldn’t be turned away for not having coverage.  The question would be how it would be paid for.  Another interesting thing to note is that medical treatments are almost always significantly cheaper in Canada.  My sister is a doctor (specialist) who now works at the Mayo Clinic but who previously worked in Canada.  She often got U.S. consults in Canada because it was much cheaper for the Americans to consult in Canada.

Hi James,

When you were in Canada, did you experience long waits to see the doctor?  Also, did you feel that your medical care was as good as the medical care you have received in the US since you’ve been here?  I ask because, as I’m sure you know, many folk against universal health care suggest that persons in countries with it are receiving significantly sub-standard medical care.  I tend to think that that is generally not true, but of course I haven’t done a representative sampling so I can’t say for sure. 

In Christ,
Shawn

Shawn:  I never had a requirement for critical treatment.  It was always very easy to see my general practitioner - just as easy as in the U.S.

As for critical treatment, it is mixed.  I can share a few stories.  One is someone who had a pain in her mid-section and had been diagnosed wrongly in the past (by a U.S. doctor) who went to the emergency in Canada.  It was discovered to be a tumor and she was in the operating room in no time flat to have the tumor removed - just as good care as you would get in the U.S.

But then last year my brother needed heart surgery.  It was not an emergency but there was some danger to his health in delaying it.  But it was delayed for months before my dad called up our local elected representative and the provincial health ministry to complain, after which my brother’s surgery was scheduled.  Also my mom needs a hip replacement and she was scheduled for surgery but it was repeatedly delayed till she finally got a “firm” date next month.  So non-emergency but very medically necessary surgeries can take anywhere from 6 months to a year to get scheduled.  I think that this is the biggest complaint.  There are cost pressures up in Canada just as there are down here, and it is these cost pressures that have led to the rationing of services.

Overall what I like about Canada’s system is that (1) it is much easier to navigate; (2) seems to be more basic in focus (e.g. they don’t order 101 high-cost tests and operations just because you got a mosquito bite); and (3) the doctors and nurses are every bit as good as U.S. doctors and nurses (i.e. some bad, most good).  What I don’t like is that (1) you can really wait a long time in discomfort for non-emergency but medically necessary surgery; and (2) there are various “politically correct” services offered on the taxpayers’ dime which I morally object to (i.e. abortion on demand up to the moment of birth).

Canada’s system is nowhere near perfect, but neither is it the nightmare that many would have you believe.

Quote James: “Canada’s system is nowhere near perfect, but neither is it the nightmare that many would have you believe.”

That is what I have always heard from people who have first-hand experience of Canadian healthcare.  Those who are against doing anything about healthcare in our country say otherwise, and their scare tactics seem to be carrying weight with some Americans.

(Completely off topic for just a quick moment, but I want to say “Welcome back Shawn”)

David Thomas - 28 August 2009 07:51 AM

Quote James: “Canada’s system is nowhere near perfect, but neither is it the nightmare that many would have you believe.”

That is what I have always heard from people who have first-hand experience of Canadian healthcare.  Those who are against doing anything about healthcare in our country say otherwise, and their scare tactics seem to be carrying weight with some Americans.

(Completely off topic for just a quick moment, but I want to say “Welcome back Shawn”)

I am also glad to see Shawn back - we have been internet friends for years.

Living close to Canada I have heard the stories of Canadians coming to the US to get treatment that they would have had to wait months for back home. However, I think only a small number of Canadians take that option and that the choice is not one of necessity but of convenience.

Waiting for surgery happens in the US as well. I have some basal cell carcinoma to be removed from my face. The surgery is scheuled for January 22. (It could have been scheduled for January, but I like to keep Advent and Christmas as simple as possible!)